Welcome to the Messy Podcast with Daniel Atlin.
Today’s leaders face extraordinary challenges. This is particularly true in work environments that focus on the public good. So what keeps these leaders going?
Every few weeks, I’ll share an episode of my new podcast, MESSY, where I talk to leaders in higher education, healthcare, non-profit and other complex environments about their lived experiences and make sense of their leadership journeys. Join me and listen to the conversations on Apple or Spotify, or stream the latest episode below.
Episode 5
Guest: Tim McTiernan, President Emeritus, Ontario Tech University
Tap into an outsider mindset
What can being an outsider teach you about leadership?
Irish-Canadian leader Tim McTiernan shares how growing up between two worlds shaped his approach to collaboration, negotiation, and change across governments and universities. His story is a masterclass in listening, learning before acting, and finding clarity in complexity.
Episode 4
Guest: Sheldon Levy, President Emeritus, Ryerson University (TMU)
No Risk, No Reward - Innovators Needed
What does it take to truly innovate in higher education?
Sheldon Levy—one of Canada’s most recognisable post-secondary leaders—shares how bold thinking, risk-taking, and trusting students can transform institutions. From creating the DMZ at Ryerson (now TMU) to challenging universities and governments to embrace experimentation, Sheldon calls for leaders who break rules thoughtfully and align education with society’s needs.
A candid conversation on courage, change, and what it really means to lead innovation in complex systems.
Episode 3
Guest: Dr. Julia Christensen Hughes, President & Vice Chancellor, Yorkville University
Powered by Passion and Purpose
What happens when leadership and learning are truly aligned?
Dr. Julia Christensen Hughes reflects on her journey through higher education—from early disappointments as a student to leading change at the University of Guelph and Yorkville University. She shares how purpose, ethical leadership, and storytelling can drive transformation, even in systems resistant to change.
A thoughtful exploration of what it means to lead with conviction, measure impact through values, and reimagine universities as learning organisations.
Episode 2
Guest: Vivek Goel, President and Vice-Chancellor at the University of Waterloo
The Doctor Will See You Now | Leadership and AI
What does it take to lead with both science and soul?
Dr. Vivek Goel, President and Vice-Chancellor of the University of Waterloo, shares how his background in medicine and public health shaped a leadership philosophy grounded in evidence, empathy, and long-term vision. He reflects on his bold “Waterloo at 100” plan—reimagining the university’s next century—and explores how AI can transform learning, research, and human connection.
A timely look at leadership, foresight, and the future of education in an age defined by technology and change.
Episode 1
Welcome to Messy - Making Sense of Leadership
Ever wonder if leaders really matter in complex organizations?
I’m Daniel Atlin, an executive coach with over 30 years steering Canada’s universities, co-ops, and government sectors. In Messy, I dive into the chaotic world of purpose-driven leadership—think higher education, healthcare, and NGOs. Join me as I talk with global leaders about navigating stakeholder conflicts, geopolitical shifts, and crises, all while balancing influence over authority. It’s raw, it’s real, and it’s not for the faint of heart.